The Biggest Reveals From Meghan Markle and Serena Williams’ Talk on Archetypes’ Ambition Podcast

The primary big fruits of Meghan Markle’s Spotify deal have come out today. The Duchess of Sussex’s Archetypes podcast launched this morning, along with her first episode featuring her and longtime friend Serena Williams breaking down the word “ambition” and the way people’s negative portrayal of ambitious women have affected their very own lives.

The 2 also discussed Williams’ announcement that she is evolving away from tennis, balancing motherhood with their public roles (Meghan had a very jarring story about how Archie was almost caught in a house fire during her and Harry’s 2019 South Africa tour), and their friendship.

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You possibly can hearken to the complete podcast below; it’s definitely worth the listen. Here, highlights from their candid chat.

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Meghan on when she was first introduced to ambition as a nasty thing: “So, I don’t remember ever personally feeling the negative connotation behind the word ambitious until I began dating my now husband. And um, apparently ambition is, uh… a terrible, terrible thing, for a lady that’s–in line with some. So, since I’ve felt the negativity behind it, it’s really hard to un-feel it. I can’t unsee it, either, within the hundreds of thousands of women and girls who make themselves smaller–a lot smaller–frequently.”

Serena on playing (and winning) a 2018 French Open match on just half-hour of sleep after her daughter Olympia broke her wrist the night before: “Mothers do more, I do know that now there are more dads that do rather a lot. But mothers traditionally do more, which is why they at all times ask, how do you balance this, mom? How are you going to have the opportunity to play tennis and have the opportunity to still have a child? Because, quite frankly, we care and we’re there and we’re breastfeeding and we’re rocking that baby to sleep. I’ll always remember, it is a crazy experience. I do not think I’ve ever, like, said anything about it publicly. On the French Open, it was, that 12 months I wore that infamous catsuit. The one piece, black.”

“In order that 12 months I had Olympia and I had a match the subsequent day and that night, she fell out of her high chair and broke her wrist. And he or she was on my watch. And I used to be just principally devastated. Like, I literally couldn’t think. I felt so guilty. I just, anyway. So she fell. We went to the hospital and she or he had a small tear, a break in her wrist, so she needed to get a forged and we didn’t get back ‘til like 4 within the morning. Meanwhile, in fact, it’s the sooner or later I used to be playing early. I remember holding her the entire night and identical to rocking her to sleep and I just didn’t let her out of my sight at that time because I used to be already and I’m hard on myself, and I’m a bit little bit of a perfectionist. But I used to be so mad at myself for even allowing that to occur. So I feel I got like half-hour of sleep after which I needed to go play this match. And I’m just pondering, how am I going to play?”

“I one way or the other managed to win, but I used to be so emotionally spent and identical to so emotionally drained that it was, it was crazy. And, you understand, after which like every night after that, I just was along with her the entire time and was like you are going to be with me. I just took rather a lot on. But mothers do rather a lot. Like I have a look at my mom, I do not understand how she had five kids. I do not know.”

Meghan on having to do events after her then-4.5-month-old son Archie was nearly caught in a house fire:

Meghan: “After we went on our tour to South Africa, we landed with Archie. Archie was what, 4 and a half months old. And the moment we landed, we needed to drop him off at this housing unit that they’d had us staying in. He was going to get able to go down for his nap. We immediately went to an official engagement on this township called Nyanga, and there was this moment where I’m standing on a tree stump and I’m giving this speech to women and girls, and we finish the engagement, we get within the automotive and so they say there’s been a fireplace on the residence. What? There’s been a fireplace in the infant’s room. What?”

“And so we’re within the automotive. We had just landed, what, an hour or 2 hours before racing back? We get back our amazing nanny, Lauren, who we would had all the best way until, um. In Canada here. Lauren in floods of tears. She was presupposed to put Archie down for his nap and she or he just said, You understand what? Let me just go get a snack downstairs. And he or she was from Zimbabwe and we loved that she would at all times tie him on her, her back with a mud cloth, and her instinct was like, Let me just bring him with me before I put him down. In that period of time that she went downstairs. The heater within the nursery caught on fire. There was no smoke detector. Someone happened to only smell smoke down the hallway went in, fire extinguished. He was presupposed to be sleeping in there.”

“And we got here back. And in fact, as a mother, you go, Oh, my God, what? Everyone’s in tears, everyone’s shaken. And what do we now have to do? Exit and do one other official engagement? I said, This does not make any sense. Can you only.”

Serena: “How did you not bring him?”

Meghan: “I used to be like, Can you only tell people what happened? And a lot, I feel, optically. The main target finally ends up being on the way it looks as an alternative of the way it feels. And a part of the humanizing and the breaking through of those labels and these archetypes and these boxes that we’re put into is having some understanding on the human moments behind the scenes that individuals won’t have any awareness of and to present one another a break. Because we did– we had to depart our baby. And although we were being moved to a different place afterwards, we still had to depart him and go do one other official engagement.”

Serena: “I could not have done that. I might have said uh-uh.”

Meghan: “Oh. Well.”

Serena on evolving away from tennis and looking out forward to expanding her family: “I do just like the word evolution since it’s like, I don’t desire, I do not like the word retirement since it has like, I do not like it for me on this scenario because I won’t ever retire from something that you just absolutely love. I’ll at all times have some form of involvement. And it won’t be professionally, but I’ll at all times wish to be involved ultimately, shape or form in tennis. You understand, obviously I’m retiring professionally, however it’s also an evolution. I’m doing more business things. And I really need to expand my family. And, you understand, I have been putting it off for therefore long. And as a lady, there’s only so, so long you’ll be able to put that off. And, you understand, other people out, other men on the market can proceed to play. But, but I like being a lady and I like, I loved being pregnant. You understand, I used to be certainly one of those. I used to be like, oh, I like this. The nothing, nothing’s oh, I’m so comfortable. Like, I used to be literally.

Meghan: “Oh, with the belly chain.”

Serena: “Considered one of…those women.”

Meghan: “Forget it. Yeah. Yeah. It’s identical to all the pieces. You made pregnancy looks so sexy. I just waddled around. I used to be just drained. So drained. Oh my god.”

Serena: “I used to be the annoying one. You were under loads of stress.”

Meghan: “Yeah, it’s true.”

Serena: “But I actually have to say that it’s just I sit up for it. I feel, I you understand, I have been fortunate enough to play tennis very well, but I feel my best is being a mom. I feel I can really be really good at that.”

You possibly can hearken to the complete episode here on Spotify.

Alyssa Bailey is the senior news and strategy editor at, where she oversees coverage of celebrities and royals (particularly Meghan Markle and Kate Middleton). She previously held positions at InStyle and Cosmopolitan. When she’s not working, she loves running around Central Park, making people take #ootd pics of her, and exploring Latest York City.

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